Why I Carry a Gun

There is the graphic here that comes very much into question about gun control and that is "Gun Control Works". How has the lack of gun control served us? Kennedy was assassinated, Reagan was nearly killed, children at a school were gunned down, a shooter at a college purchased his arms legally and went on a rampage and now a congresswoman holds onto her life. He had his "intent" and he had his target, he had as you say "gun control".

The mantra of "guns do not kill people, people with guns kill people" doesn't hold water with me. The gun is just a tragedy waiting to happen. Doesn't matter who's home it may be in.

During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED!

That is in all probability historically inaccurate.

GUN CONTROL = HITTING YOUR TARGET

You should read that the way I am.

Well said, Dave.

I've also asked a question of several here on the Vine, who have posted "if I had been in Tucson with MY gun, he wouldn't have gotten away with it!" and haven't received any response:

How is it realistic to imagine that you, another person in everyday clothes, whipping out a gun and shooting, would help the situation? Were I in such a crowd, I would assume that you are with the original shooter and I have a suspicion so would law enforcement. And what if 2 or more brought out guns as "good guys?" Each wouldn't know the other is a fellow good guy and, IMO, chaos would increase.

That is in all probability historically inaccurate.

Actually, it was mentioned by a Japanese General after the war was over. I'll try to find the actual quote when I get home from work.

The gun is just a tragedy waiting to happen. Doesn't matter who's home it may be in.

By that logic, then so is an automobile.

Not to mention that it ignores the bigger issue of gun violence being a societal issue. Banning cigarettes and alcohol would be more effective in saving lives.

Let's not address the issues within our society let's just ban cars, er...guns. <sarc>

Well said Davetopper.Consider this though.We only see the assasinations,attempts at said and the actions of nutjobs the likes of which took place on Saturday in Tuscon.Rarely do incidents in which a life was saved ever make national headlines or even state.Incidents where a life was saved by a gun where a shot never had to be fired dont even make the news at all in most cases.I submit if these incidents were compiled and set next to all the others we would begin to see a far different picture.Problem is,with these incidents not even being reported.........

Rarely do incidents in which a life was saved ever make national headlines or even state.Incidents where a life was saved by a gun where a shot never had to be fired dont even make the news at all in most cases.

The publication American Rifleman, which comes with an NRA membership covers just such situations frequently.

But of course, if it doesn't bleed, it doesn't lead in the various media outlets.

I think it was Yamamoto {SP?} who was quoted as saying If we invade America there will be a gun behind every blade of grass. That's not an exact quote, but you get the idea.

I know this Blue Archer.I have brought "The Armed Citizen" column to the attention of all who would listen before on other blogs and I have been rebuked so many times with petty arguments like "Liar" "liars" and worse that I just dont bother too much anymore.Look here tomorrow and Im betting someone will be demanding and exact quote and a link.when you give em that,theyll say the link needs to be backed up with another link.Give em that and they'll say it wasnt on Daily KOS so your a liar.I just say my piece anymore and let the chips fall where they may.Good luck to you sir!

By that logic, then so is an automobile.

...and steak knives, hatchets, golf clubs, baseball bats, pipe, sticks and stones... Outlaw everything that can kill and we have nothing left.

Lots of people own guns, most aren't trained properly enough to know when and how to use it appropriately.

Also, despite what you see in movies, whipping out a gun and shooting a bad guy, that is assuming you are able to do so successfully without creating more chaos or shooting other bystanders, you won't be thanked by the police when they do show up. Count on being detained for at least a few hours until they sort it out.

In case you missed the point, training makes all the difference in the world, and that hunter's safety course you took when you were 12 doesn't cut it, that is why the military and police agencies train all the time.

Lifelong gun owner,constant shooter,and retired,armed professional.Not that I care,not that it makes any difference because its a 2nd Amendment right that shall not be infringed,but howd that be?Stone,its not my fault people have hidden guns and gun culture from their children for generations now,putting them at a disadvantage for survival in the world they went on to help make.The 2nd Amendment remains unchanged,along with its relevance.Its always been a dangerous world and it always will be.I never shied away from teaching this basic principal to any youngsters I could.I also never missed an opportunity to teach safe,gunhandling and proper mindset to any one who cared to learn.What have you done?

How'd what be?

I haven't owned a gun in a long time and never needed one, maybe you should move to a better neighborhood.

maybe you should move to a better neighborhood.

Or maybe you should pray that yours doesn't go bad and you become a casualty before you can arm yourself to fight back. Criminal acts can happen anywhere; if you've never needed one, you've just been lucky so far.

Nope,Im just fine.Maybe you oughtta stay out of mine.Stone,you dont want to debate or discuss,you want to tell me what to do.Aint ever gonna happen.Ignore.

Good, just loudly announce when you enter a store or a building with other members of the public. If you refuse to train yourself properly and still carry a gun, you are one of the dangerous ones in the equation.

Thanks for the warning about your neighborhood, untrained people with guns does sound very dangerous.

Also, not having a gun doesn't make me helpless.

Were I in such a crowd, I would assume that you are with the original shooter and I have a suspicion so would law enforcement.

I think they would get the idea after the shooting stopped and one guy with a gun was laying there bleeding...

Each wouldn't know the other is a fellow good guy and, IMO, chaos would increase.

Yea, because most people would just randomly start spraying bullets rather than assess the situation.

Count on being detained for at least a few hours until they sort it out.

I could live with that if it saved even one life.

maybe you should move to a better neighborhood.

Because if you go away so does the problem, right? Yea, don't bother trying to fix the neighborhood, just leave. :)

GUN CONTROL = HITTING YOUR TARGET

Means Using Both Hands... I might add, where is all that anti gun owner ctivity that President Obama was supposed to be imposing on the US? It never existed folks, but the FEAR of it made lots of money for ammunition producers. Not all or even most Democrats are anti gun folks, in fact a fair number of us are gun owners.

where is all that anti gun owner ctivity that President Obama was supposed to be imposing on the US? It never existed folks

Nope, never did. But it was damn good for arms and ammo sales.

How is it realistic to imagine that you, another person in everyday clothes, whipping out a gun and shooting, would help the situation? Were I in such a crowd, I would assume that you are with the original shooter and I have a suspicion so would law enforcement. And what if 2 or more brought out guns as "good guys?" Each wouldn't know the other is a fellow good guy and, IMO, chaos would increase.

This popular "chaos" theory, although plausible, is highly unlikely. Let's take the scenario of a grocery store where a gunman opens fire on everyone he sees as he walks through. If you had a loved one in the store, would you not want an armed citizen to attempt to stop the situation? Or would you prefer he continue to pick people off until the cops show up?

Now let's say that armed citizen #1 pulls out his gun. Most likely he's not going to start dancing around saying, "Here I am! I have a gun! I'm a hero!" He will most likely look for safe cover to assess the situation and find the best means of eliminating the threat. So his gun will eventually be aimed at the gunman.

Armed citizen #2 pulls out his gun. He notices armed citizen #1. His gun is NOT pointed toward innocents but toward the gunman. It would be fairly safe to assume that he is trying to stop the threat. If possible, it would be a good opportunity to announce yourself to that person as long as it does not draw the wrong attention to you.

The way armed citizens will know who the bad guy is and who he isn't is that all the guns will be pointing at the bad guy.

Here's an excellent video that sums up the responsibility of concealed carry:

"The Concealed Carry Protocol" by Nutnfancy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei8OK4WdoW0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

It is probably on this thread somewhere, but I agree with the fact that the best reason to carry a gun is because a cop is too damn heavy.

I agree with mightyj on this one...

I don't own a gun, and don't plan on it, but I support your rights to own a gun.

Yes. I am liberal. :)

Can you direct me to information anywhere about all plasticfully automatic assault rifles?Especially elementary school models as I have a neice in elementary school who has been having problems with a bully.Ive been to the NRA website and I couldnt find it.

I was going to say I've never heard of a fully plastic firearm.

Nahhhh,just a figment of a vivid imagination.They do use lots of plastic (tee hee,polymer) in guns these days but not even close to all.Im partial to polished wood and blue steel.Throw in a little history and some quality production and handcrafting with a hearty design.Now you have a gun.

My 9mm is polymer and stainless, but my .22 pistol is all steel with cocobolo wood grips. It's a beaut!

http://www.ruger.com/products/markIIIHunter/models.html

I was actually just cracking an NRA joke. I know they have to keep lobbying for any kind of banned gun including the nasty little composite ones that the metal detectors have trouble with. That is part of having a job in the lobbying industry. Now before Charleton Heston gets all wild on me. The NRA is a lobbying organization. I like guns fine but I am not overly fond of lobbyists if you know what I mean.

My last gun was a Remington 7mm deer hunting rifle. For skiff guns I have had a mossberg 12 gauge, and a 45-70 bear gun.

We had a 45-70 messenger gun that was pretty cool on the Margarett Lynn (fishing vessel) it fired a long round with a hook on it and there was 500 yards of twine on it. You could put a line to anybody with that thing (stuff like that saves lives.)

I never owned a hand gun because bears were the major issue where and there was not much chance that a hand gun was going to do anything but piss them off. They eat folks for that.

Travelling as much as I do now with all of the restrictions against gun transport and even the fishing vessels here don't want people to carry. I just can't see the point in owning a gun right now. In Alaska every fishing boat has a gun on it. If I get a boat there you can believe it will have a gun and it will be a lot more powerfull than a hand gun. You never know when you could end up in the wilderness and need protection.

I hear ya MightyJ.

I own 2 Glock 17s and a Weatherby PA-459. I have them hidden strategically around my house in the event of a home invasion or zombie apocalypse. I'm not a gun lover they are strictly for home defense.

I don't currently own a gun, but I do have several non-lethal alternatives and the training to handle them properly.

If you want to own a gun, go for it, just get trained properly. Otherwise issue your family kevlar vests to wear around the house.

Marine56, great post!. Stone, in many states it is illegal for non-police to possess body armor. Go figure. JJ, in bear country the pistol caliber of choice is .44 Magnum. It will drop the bear.

To all of the gun-control crowd I say that all current local, state, and federal gun-control laws are un-constitutional. Read the Second Amendment and the recent court decisions for particulars. If you want to disarm American citizens, then try to repeal the 2nd. Fat chance of success, but no-one will stop you from trying.

Some of us don't live in neighborhoods, we live in very rural areas. I don't carry off the place, but I am never far away from a gun on the place. As we have just seen the past few days, there are a lot of nut cases in the world, and you never know who they are until they do something.

There are a lot more trained people in this country than the not trained really realise.

I know they have to keep lobbying for any kind of banned gun including the nasty little composite ones that the metal detectors have trouble with

Please tell me that was a joke too.

Mongowildman:

Anyone careless enough to think that another would be so incompetent would himself be a candidate for not having a gun.

Not a logical assumption, I have hunting guns and have had since I was a child, I simply don't take an interest in killing people. Guns are never a logical answer and when humans use them to solve human problems the problems always escalate.

Never say never Blayde.And yes its true guns do escalate problems.They also abruptly stop them with finality.The world over,I think its fair to say the latter is more often the case.

They also abruptly stop them with finality.

True that.

I think it is to say that guns kill people that kill more people only to be killed by guns. You are not a Representative of people that have read the Bahagavad Gita are you?

Hunting guns and handguns are different breeds. Much easier to hurt oneself with a handgun. Hunting tend to hurt others accidentally.

I agree, they are not a solution to any problem unless the target you are target shooting for practice.

I do not have hunting guns but I do have three pistols. (unless you count BB guns). I shoot targets at a private range, and have no intention to ever aim at a human or other animal, with the exception of self-protection. Never on the offense.

I dont know what that is Blayde.But Im willing to listen.

Much easier to hurt oneself with a handgun. Hunting tend to hurt others accidentally.

I'll never understand how people don't understand the phrases "finger OFF the trigger" and "act as if a gun is loaded, even when it's not."

I can have my pistol field stripped and will still not allow the barrel to be pointing at anything that could get shot! I guess I'm just a safety freak. :)

A lot of the time, it is intentional. Nothing wrong with being safe. I treat guns the same as electricity. Always assume it is going to hurt you.

Yep, my veterinarian and I chat guns when I see him. His thing has been "respect it, or it WILL kill you."

I teach youngsters like this.Hey!Finger off the trigger.You look like a tool when you do that.Let me show you how to look like you know what youre doing.Finger straight out till youre ready to shoot.No exceptions ever.Inspection,Loading and unloading,range proceedures,chain of command and reasons for said are gone over and over before the first time at the range.Respect the power in your hand.Its a life changer.

I like guns also they are fun to shoot and I used to like hunting quite a bit, I like cleaning and eating game. ST I used a reference to the Bhagavad Gita because both Gandhi and Heinrich Himmler read the Bhagavad Gita. The Hindu's seemed to understand mankind a long time ago.

Basically it is a story about two armies in India that are facing off on a battle field, Arjuna rides his chariot onto the battlefield to survey the opposing army, when he decides he cant fight them because they are relatives of his family, at this point his driver reveals him self to be Krishna. Krishna reveals all of his manifestations to Arjuna and tells him why he must fight. Robert Oppenheimer, upon witnessing the first atomic bomb uttered the famous line from the Gita; "Now I have become death destroyer of worlds."

This book is a must for anyone interested in war, peace and human conflict.

I guess I'm just a safety freak

Good! I have seen too many idiots wave guns around like they think they are in a rap video or action movie. It makes me want to take the damn thing away from them and bitch slap em.

Blayde,

...guns kill people that kill more people only to be killed by guns

beg pardon?

Regarding Oppenheimer's quotation, comparing the lethal capacity of a human with a gun to that of a nuclear explosive is a bit over the top.

No it is not, remember I am not against guns, I just don't think they are the best solution to human problems. You must remember another scientist at the trinity test also asked the question; "Is this one finally big enough?" They wondered if it might not rid us of armed conflict. What difference is there, a gun, a cannon, land mine, rocket or atom bomb, if it is used to kill people? I am not even against Marine owning a hand gun, I doubt it will protect him but I think it would be fun to shoot targets with it. I do wish the nut in Arizona hadn't been permitted to buy his gun, I think we all can agree that he was the wrong guy. Stopping him with a gun likely, would have resulted in more innocent deaths.

I dont know how you can say stopping him with a gun likely would have resulted in more innocent deaths.But you did touch on a very important point Blayde.Guns are intended to stop,not exactly kill.I would say that killing is a side effect of the more important action of stopping someone from whatever action they may be doing that warrants such measures.They are the most convenient,effective and efficient means of doing so available at this time to us humans.So many supposedly better alternatives have come down the pike but none measure up in the end.Im a huge advocate of the taser for many situations police may find themselves in,before they escalate to the gun.Some call it,and me a facist tool when I say that,but the bottom line for me is that they have saved far more lives than theyve taken.But thats not good enough for some lawyers and bleading hearts who get discombobulated when a meth freak loses his life because he wouldnt obey the lawful commands of a police officer doing his job protecting the community.Can the taser be abused?Sure,still better to abuse a taser than a gun or a nightstick.That just wont do for many of the same crowd that has a problem with guns.After listeng to so much of that,I become convinced the problem lies with them and not the tools of free men and police protecting the community.I have been an advocate of people who want a means of self defense,but one thats not as lethal as a gun to look into the taser.Unfourtunately the legal climate produced by all of the complainers and their lawyers has made the carry and use of a taser almost more libelous than that of a gun.Sad.Sad when personal responsibility for ones own safety must take a back seat to such considerations.What kind of society are we when the criminals have the legal drop on us in court?Any way you shake it Blayde,thats not right.

ST, I dont know how you can say stopping him with a gun likely would have resulted in more innocent deaths

There was a crowd, the police wouldn't have even taken the risk of firing a shot in that situation, we are lucky the military guy was there to tackle him. I don't want to be on here telling you not to have guns, we just need to take care that we aren't letting the wrong people get them, for the wrong reasons.

100%,5x5,roger wilco agreed Blayde.For the wrong people getting their hands on guns.The diehard in me wont conceed that less than what 12 people,could have been victims had a person with a gun been able to stop him sooner though.I wasnt there though and Im just glad it wasnt more.That might just be me.I get a little onry after a twelve hour shift.Pay no mind.....

...not the best solution to human problems.

When a "human problem" involves another human trying to harm you or your family, application of lethal force is a viable solution.

You'll love it or hate it.I love it,but I have a limit of two hours before I start getting tired and missing clays I should be hitting.

Target shooting is one way I like to relax when I am at the ranch. I use steel gongs that self-reset instead of the clays. Something about being able to reuse them instead of buying new ones sounds better for me. The gongs are 3" swinging disks that I generally shoot from 25 yards with my little Browning.

Yeah,nice setup MongoWildman.Im not fortunate enough to have a private area devoted to shooting though.I have to shoot what I brung and pack it back out of a desert area.For that reason,I set the clays up at varying distances and heights and lots of em for rifle and handguns,then I walk back and shoot till theyre gone.The clays are nice because theyre bio degradable and non toxic, so I dont actually have to pick them up.They are a good size for targets also.I have a couple of different throwers and use them for shotguns,depending on whether anyone is with me or Im alone.I also set up man shaped targets stapled onto several stands I made with two by fours.I have a modified school desk that is light and fits in the back of my truck I use as a shooting bench for long distance fun.

My brother brought out his .270 and we made water bottles disappear at 100 yards.

You have to be using a scope, right??? I only have iron sights on my girlfriends .22 rifle. Granted, they're fiber optics, but still.

Last few years Ive glassed all my rifles.The AKs are nice because they offer a platform for the glass that allows use of either or.I have a 10/22 that I decked out with all the goodies and it only has a low mounted 50 mm objective over a .920 diameter heavy straight contoured barrel.No irons on that one.Im of the mind that a working rifle should have both available.

You have to be using a scope, right???

Most definitely... I can't see a water bottle that far away without one. We filled them with dirt and they just go up in a puff of dust. One of us would watch with a spotter scope while the other took the shot. Back and forth.

That thing is really too loud to shoot too much. My ears were ringing after 4 shots, with muffs on.

My dad taught me about the power of a gun when I was a kid by filling a milk jug with nasty pond water, giving me a 12 gauge shotgun and told me to go shoot it. I walked up to the jug, tucked the gun up to my shoulder and shot it. The noise, explosion of pond water and the kick knocked me on my ass wet and smelly.

Nice comment.

They should make a law that every adult in America has to carry a gun.

Fed up,that would be unconstitutional...........

Yes it would.

Everybody is supposed to have the uninfringed right to carry a gun, they don't have to, big difference.

For a right to be treated as anything but a right - I feel - might well turn that right into an ultimatum. Therefore: I agree that ownership of a firearm or other legal defensive device has long been - and should remain - an individual choice.

If individual choice is taken away, I fear we are then left with an unmotivated owner/possessor. And without motivation, the drive to learn about the device(s) and how they should and should not be used - and when - might not be there.

You make too much sense, US Citizen!

The terms "liberal" and "conservative" both no longer mead what they once did. We have too many terms that have been hijacked by various factions that there is no real line that can be drawn between them.

I wonder about choice when presented with it, and wonder about those expressing the term choice have that same regard for women and their choice to have an abortion. Rather doubtful.

And then we have this rather typical point of right wing demagoguery...

Maybe they all ought to go home, rethink their philosophy and come back only if they can figure out what direction they want to go in.

Should I only return when I agree with you? Is that it?

Hey Santino, Same here. I'm in the south suburbs, and have been super critical of the hand gun ban in Chicago. It does not work. I'm a firm believer these gang banging jackasses are going to kill eachother no matter what, but at least the law abiding citizen of Chicago could defend themselves.

I'm a firm believer these gang banging jackasses are going to kill eachother no matter what, but at least the law abiding citizen of Chicago could defend themselves.

I would love to know how many legally registered guns are involved in the gun violence in Chicago.

I just wonder if tomorrow they lifted the ban and allowed everyone to carry - would the first drunken party weekend turn into a giant debacle?

I like guns but I wouldn't think of carrying one in Chicago, I like to tote them about my farm but in Chicago I make careful observations and I don't go where I am not permitted. A guy looking for trouble will probably find it there. I stay close to Hyde park, we love each other there. Watch out for the Nazis in the far north, up near the Lincoln Park Zoo, they don't like pretty young women with a tan, (my wife Juanita twenty five years ago) they thought she was Jewish. Use guns for recreation but don't use them to protect your self from other humans. War excluded, but I think war is also obsolete, I just don't think soldiers are to blame for antiquated philosophical ideas held by the people that send them to war.

Blayde , that is your choice and you have the right to make it , what those that would ban guns do not have is the right to make choices for others especially those that disagree with them , My answer is simple , dont ask for a vote because irregardless of the vote i will not disarm, make whatever law you want through the majority , I will not comply , I live in a very rural area , where emergency responce is realistically counted in quarter and half hours unless they happen to be right on the highway in front of the place . those 15 mins alot can happen and , Im sorry but im not going to wait on the police to stop an intruder , and i will not shoot to wound , I already have the reputation of shooting intruders and thieves , had alittle incident with gas syphoning , and shot the perp right in the azz as they were sucking the hose to start the process, turns out it was a 17 yr old girl stealing gas to go cruising town with friends , instead she got to eat her meals standing up for the next week , yes i did shoot her , in the winter , she was wearing carharts , and i wacked her with rocksalt . Thing is no one knows if the next time will it be rocksalt. or will it be lead?. Ill keep my choices and my guns.

Everybody has a right to their own opinion.Im originally from Chicago Blayde.I was just a pup when I moved here to AZ with my folks though.I still have lots of family there and they were all cops or family there of.Overall they seem to just have different ideas than me,but lamented their inability to at least have the option of legal self defense with a handgun.I sure had fun when they came visiting out this way and I could introduce em to AK47s and the desert legally.They did too,but werent much for spending the night out there.Just a little too wide open for em I guess.A big part of my deal is that people who live in a different setting and even different states have no business trying to dictate what we do out here in the desert.That just doesnt make sense.

Mark, I have 10 or fifteen guns, and if some one tried to enter my house I have a single shot 20 gauge that I use to shoot from the hip, it ejects the shells so it reloads fast, I got more pheasants with that gun than I ever did with my trap grade, Zoli 12 gauge over and under with a ventilated rib. I simply wouldn't carry my gun to town, that is all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raXKeQ5qFwo

Got my vote Blayde.Gotta love the man in black.

A shotgun is the only viable weapon from home defense. Drywall barely slows down slugs.

I don't want to try and stop a person with something that can be stopped by drywall...

Just shoot through the wall and kill your family instead.

While a shotgunisn't as lethal as a bullet, I contend that it buys you a little reaction time, most people go down when they get shot with that much blast. I suspect that is why the point guys in Vietnam used 12 gauges for 3 meter combat. Protecting the inside of a home is definitely 3 meter combat. Technically I'll bet they used buck shot, and at that range it would leave a pretty big hole. 2-5 shot would probably be enough to protect a home. We better get myth busters on this one.

I look forward to seeing Kari Byron in her nightie shooting a mock up of a burglar :)

Stone, haven't you ever heard of frangible bullets? These break up on initial impact, losing energy in the process and drastically reducing penetration. The Glaser Saf-T-Slug is one such. This type of ammo will not penetrate through a standard wood and sheetrock wall with anything approaching lethal force and will not go through the body of an assailant. Developed specifically for home defense.

I have heard something about those. That would be safe enough I imagine. The other thing about a shotgun is the cha-chunk sound when you cock them that scares off most people.

I still prefer my 160 lb mastiff/lab mix outside, plus a mix of martial arts and a big ass stick if they get inside. I don't object to guns but I do highly recommend proper training above all else.

Alot of folks think that shot from a shoit gun starts to spread out immediately that its only a matter of a ft or 2 and the spread starts getting doorway wide , thats not always true , because it also depends on the type of shot , usually and i will use Blaydes 3 meter distance , usually in that distance the shot has spread , ( for common sizes of bird shot) has expanded maybe 5 muzzle diameter openings . another thing to consider , also , I have a simple single shot .410 as a house gun. usually loaded with #4 bird. yrs ago i checked the ballistics of the particular load and compared it to other cals in hand guns, turns out the closest matching handgun data, for that round was , a 44magnum round, in weight of projectile , muzzle velocity .

The point is , it is still personal individual choice what one will do for their own personal safety, and what they will choose to accomplish that.

I know they make shotgun shells specially for use in home defense with low muzzle velocity and small pellets to prevent wall penetration, called something like close combat or something catchy like that.

Stone , your correct , there are commercially made rounds , both for shotguns and handguns for home defense . The are designed to do specific , things , frangable ammo is designed to have once they impact , to expend their energy quickly , the rounds your talking about do the same thing , but are no less lethal to the target impacted , as a reloader , both of handgun rifle and shot shells i have experimented my self , on how to make them preform as i desire , for shotshells , if i want to keep the spread tight , i can choose the type of choke on the shotgun , a way to make it tighter , is with shell itself , and how it is constructed ,. when I add the shot , I have found adding a layer of buffer ,alternating layers of shot and buffer , affects the way the shot spreads as well. Do I have scientific data , to back up what I have experimented with? not at all , it was all trial and error , seeing what worked and what didnt , before the switch to steel shot or non toxic shot for waterfowl, i had , reloads that were very good at what I desired them to do . when i was younger , I had questions on some oth the things I had read , like with the Sfety slugs such as Glazers , and did my own experiments , callit i didnt trust everything I heard and wanted to see for myself , now this was 20 to 30 yrs ago as well , technology , has made alot of changes , and what i found out then , may or may not apply today .

Now someone mentioned the need for a HICAP mag , when I go varmint hunting here its Coyote , i have an varmint gun , thats based on the AR system , all i carry is a single mag , 30 rounds, thats all i have ever needed and very seldomly have i ever expended that amount of ammo , the few times I have , either there were alot of Coyotes coming in , or there were none coming in and it turned into an impromptu target practice session. Ussually it was the latter .

Another thing I wonder about and someone mentioned , is in the case of a home invasion , what the simple sound alone does to the situation , the simple sound of an action being worked , the sound of a pump being worked , or a bolt release working , or the sound of a bolt beling locked into place, whats the pychological value and effect ? now imagine those sounds , in the dark in an unfamiliar place.

Stone,

They do make those rounds but ordinary target shells in #7 1/2 shot do the same job a lot cheaper. They will not penetrate 2 layers of sheetrock (the first layer breaks up the mass of shot and the second one four inches away stops it). It will, however, if it hits within 3 yards (12 feet), turn a man's heart and lungs into hamburger. At those ranges, choke doesn't effect the shot spread at all.

Just shoot through the wall and kill your family instead.

Or I could take an angle of fire that doesn't place my family behind the intruder. Is that OK with you?

We better get myth busters on this one.

Google "The box o' truth"

I know they make shotgun shells specially for use in home defense with low muzzle velocity and small pellets to prevent wall penetration, called something like close combat or something catchy like that.

Small "pellets" are called bird shot, they are NOT recommended for self/home defense.

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2010/12/mecosta_county_homeowner_fires.html

Nope, I'd blame it on the moron with the gun and no sense. I know that sounds like Palin, but there are lots of those people around.

I was being facetious

OK, cool. Sarcasm and facetiousness don't come through all that well on the internet.

Yeah... I suppose I ought to tag it huh?

Mstanley,there are problems and awareness is key.But the larger picture tells me that one of these is people who blow evertything so far out of proportion when something terrible happens in an effort to further their cause.

yes, there is that. It does keep the situation static, doesn't it?

They forget or don't want to know about another aspect of buying a gun, 'straw buyers', someone who buys a gun for someone else that is not legally able too. Most of those straw buyers don't wind up with a felony conviction because most states don't prosecute or have laws to stop them.

Its a federal law and state law here.I am lucky enough to live a few miles away from one of the largest mail order firearm retailers in the world.They have a showroom and I make trips at least monthly.There are ATFE postings on the wall to remind everyone and the agents are there,inspecting records almost every time Im there.The ATFE are so critical,that the store will accept no mistakes,scratched out,erased,initialed or otherwise on the white forms.No abbreviations either and heres what really puts off a lot of people,any purchase of ammunition requires a signature.Its not the law,but they require it as a precaution to liable suits from potential victims and as a bullwark against ATFE harrassment.Lots of people I know wont buy there.Fine with me,I shoot cheaper than any of em and if a guy named Senior Tokarev hasent made their watchlist already,I must be doing something wrong.I dont care,its my pursuit of happieness and right under the constitution and I follow all laws and regulations,practice safe gunhandling and I have a keen sense of responsibility to my fellow citizens.Im squeeky clean and I sleep good.The laws are tighter than most of the anti gunners would have us believe.But they wont ever be tight enough for them untill we all have to spend Yen at the food line and face Mecca in prayer five times a day by law under pain of death by beheading.